I recently learned during an ROTC briefing that U.S. military servicemembers attending SERE-C school (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) are waterboarded as part of their stress-inoculation training. I'm definitely not making a final judgement call in favor of the technique, or coercive interrogation in general. However, I do think the fact that we somewhat-routinely waterboard our own soldiers, sailors, and airmen as part of training weakens that case that waterboarding is a form of torture, and legitimates it as an interrogation technique.
I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks.
JFK Special Warfare School webpage on SERE training. Obviously it avoids any controversial subjects.
Both of these article are rather obviously trying to make a political statement, but they do highlight the relationship between SERE training and coercive interrogation. I'm not claiming to agree with the conclusions, though.
8 comments:
I think it definitely defeats some of the argument that water boarding specifically is a torturous technique... especially given that this is the worst thing that has come up that the US has done, while terrorists chop peoples heads off in front of a camera. Also, Pro. Payne noted that more people have been water boarded in protest of water boarding then ever have been water boarded in order to get information (like 30-3 or something like that). That sounds a little fishy to me.
Still, coercive methods are not to be trifled with. I support them only in situations where the person in question is a known terrorist, and with known information, and that information being time-sensitive (a nuke planted somewhere, etc). Otherwise, besides being morally wrong, it is not very effective, as Pro. Payne argued before- a person will tell you anything to make it stop.
If we do it to our own soldiers is their really any question if we do it to others. If our tough guys can take it So can the bad guys. Though, I wonder how effective is it toturte your own guys in case they get tortured does it really work ? How does this help ?
As I looked at the SERE training website it looked like they were conditioning soldiers to become super soldiers, and rightfully so. The Middle East is nothing like the US so we need to prepare our troops for a worst case scenario-what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. I agree with waterboarding if we do it to our own soldiers we should do it to our enemies. Although the tactics used by the French in Algeria were extreme when fighting in Algiers, I do agree with the principal that we can't give the guilty more rights than the innocent. I say sacrifice the one to save the greater good.
Just because we have put certain soldiers through it and other people have committed themselves to undergo waterboarding does not mean that it is not torture...
Interrogations have followed numerous methods which and often take time. I would not say that these methods are ineffective however. In many cases they might be, in others, maybe not. Either way when we stoop to use methods which we would openly denounce anyone else using we have to be cautious and watch ourselves.
Here is an article on various interrogation methods used in Guantanamo from a few years ago...I don't care what methods they use--it does not seem like a fun experience.
sorry about the grammar in that last one...I didn't mean to publish it yet--oh well.
I thought it might be good to give a definition of what waterboarding is seems we all may have a different picture of it in our minds:
From an article at ABCnews: Link
"Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess. "
~Greg (This is not my official post for the week)
This is a really tricky subject. I agree with Luke that we shouldn't stoop to level of interrogation that is morally wrong, but if we don't then are held responsible for the lives that are killed or maimed during terrorists attacks when we could have prevented it by getting the information we needed through interrogation methods like waterboarding.
I guess what it comes down to is if waterboarding is a form of torture. Just because people waterboard themselves as protest or because the Army puts our soldiers through waterbnoarding doesn't mean it is not a form of torture. I have no idea if it is torture or not, but if it is then we probably shouldn't use it in our interrogation methods if it is not torture then it should be used.
Well, I'm not quite sure that we can claim it is the worst thing the United States has ever done as Steve-o states in his comment. The fact that it is not life-threatening and utilized by the United States government in other capacities is not relevant. The question is whether or not the practice is torture. I'm not an expert on this subject, but I'm leaving myself open to the possibility that despite the United States uses of the practice, it still just might be over the line.
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